Outsourcing and Remote Work Increasingly Important - Interview with OnlineJobs.ph Founder John Jonas #19

spk_0:   0:00
why outsourcing is even more relevant today. This is Theme I, Amazon guy podcast. I'm Stephen Pope. So I'm now joined by John from online, uh, Ph jobs. And we're gonna be talking today. Why V A's and outsourcing is even more relevant today than it ever has been special with Corona Virus and Kobe 19. So I'm now joined by John. John. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me. All right, so we're gonna talk today about virtual assistance and who they are. Let's start with that. So why Why would Why would somebody need a virtual assistant to begin with?

spk_1:   0:41
So I mean most. I guess most people selling on Amazon are are small. I mean, they're they're definitely big, big people on Amazon. They have. They probably already have. Somebody is working for them. Um, but generally is a small business owner, like, there's just not enough time in the day to get everything done that you need to And for me, when I realized that I could hire someone full time and they were competent and talented and cared and that we're not a robot for around $400 a month, that was just realizing that and recognizing it was a big, big change for me, I changed my mind set. And so I think most people selling on Amazon would it would be just to recognize Oh, this exists that someone for $400 a month could do all of my customer support and they could deal with trying to get reviews. And they could, uh, handle inventory management. Um, and they're competent and they're loyal and they're talented, like just so recognizing that would be a big deal.

spk_0:   1:48
So Jonah Paula doesn't grab your last name John Jonas. And until I tell my audience what you do for online jobs dot ph.

spk_1:   1:58
So on the jobs is a job board. It's kind of like indeed dot com, where we just provide a platform for you to find people on your own where we're not involved. We don't They don't work for us. They don't. We don't recruit for you. We don't tell you who to hire or we don't know anybody good. We have nearly a 1,000,000 Filipino profiles there, and we have hundreds of thousands of employers using it, and you come on and post a job and and the Philippines will apply to your job and and then you recruit them from there. So you you interview them and hire who you think is the best.

spk_0:   2:35
So I have personally used the service and we have on staff members from the Philippines, and, you know, it's kind of, Ah, someone of an unknown secret. I feel that there's a good labor pool of talented individuals specifically in the Philippines. Why do you think that is John?

spk_1:   2:57
So there's a specific set of cultural things that exist in the Philippines that don't exist elsewhere, And I think one of the reasons it's kind of secret is because there's only 100 million people in the Philippines. It's not like India. Where there's, you know, 1.3 billion people or whatever it is, it's right. So for a long time, I think most of the world kind of said, Oh, there's so many people in India and English is a primary language there. Let's go to India and they kind of glanced over the Philippines about 10 years ago that started changing and, um, the world started waking up to like these cultural things that existed that were really, really favorable in the Philippines like they're super, super loyal if you treat them well and they're honest with foreign employers and they're hard working and they really want to make you happy and they speak American English as like a primary language. And so there's a whole bunch of things that that make this a different experience than what most people have had with outsourcing.

spk_0:   3:54
They're so I I agree with everything you mentioned John and any of my interactions with with talent from the Philippines. I have found that that loyalty definitely exists. I have also found just colloquial speaking and interacting there without fail. Never asked for this, but without fail, they're all addressing you, sir. They're all very formal, and it's very unique thing. So I definitely I see exactly what you're talking about. Um, so in terms of of that English talent, I think the number one concern a lot of people have when they try and outsource some talent is can they Can they read and write and speak the language that I need them to to complete the job and duty? What? Why do you feel like the Philippines is capable on that front?

spk_1:   4:43
so, uh, English is government mandated as a primary language, like they mandated that business be done in English schools. Elementary school is very often taught in English, like street signs learn English and billboard turning this until I've only been there once. It was in 2010 but, uh, I was really surprised to see billboard during English are or street signs or, like the concrete printed on manhole or the the Steel Manhole covers are all in English, Um, and the Philippines. It has an odd situation that haven't seen anywhere else in the world, where they look up to foreigners and specifically like to the Western culture, where after World War two, the US help them rebuild the country. And so you you kind of get this situation where they like our culture and they watch American TV and they watch American movies. And so English is American English or British English, not Indian. English is very, very ingrained into their culture, and so you you could. You talk to them and you understand them and they understand you. And, um, it's just a really good It's a really good situation.

spk_0:   6:04
So let's talk about, um Cove in 19 Corona virus. This is obviously causing the most volatile economy perhaps the world has ever seen, and kind of kind of. The main theme of our podcast today is why outsourcing is even more relevant today. Specifically, why do you feel like having virtual assistance right now using a job's platform like online jobs, that pH is even more critical today than it was, say a month ago?

spk_1:   6:35
So So I don't know that it's any more than it was a month ago, but, like I have 26 people that work for me. They're all in the Philippines. They all work full time for us, and every one of them is home and they they don't. We don't have an office. And so we didn't have to shut anything down. I work from home. My business partner works from home. Not one thing has changed with our business. And so when this all happened, like oh, where we're on home confinement or school is cancelled, all the businesses are closed or what? Nothing has changed for us, and that is due to number one, obviously having an online business being online. But number two all of our workforce is remote and we're not dependent on anything being in office or being together. And that's really nice. Like I sent an email yesterday to all of my team saying, How are you doing? And most of them said I'm great. Uh, I'm working from home, but I'm already used to that, so that's fine. So I think, and even more than ever, like if you're at home right now because you're not going to work and you're tryingto run an Amazon business on the side or this is your is your full time job, whatever it is staying, I don't I've never seen a better time to try and shift the way you work than right now. It's

spk_0:   8:00
It's probably one of the biggest American worth workforce experiments that's ever been done before because, you know, you've had all these people who have asked, um, toe work remote or try and find remote jobs in the U. S economy for well over a decade now and then all of a sudden, hey, those approvals that we needed to get to work. Hey, everybody's doing it. It's forced. It's almost mandated right now. With 1/4 of the country and, um, stay home and be sheltered or whatever order. It might be pertinent between all the states. So it's It's really interesting to see that experience play out in real time, and productive ity is going to shift. From what, uh, you know, I was read not linked in from some other experts last night. It's going to shift from activity. Focus, too. Ah, more focused on complete completing tasks and completing work and delivering deliver bles, if you will. It's gonna go from activity to deliver Bols. And so I think that's really fascinating tow watch in the U. S. Economy. But really the Philippines, they're already there. They're actually ahead of us on on that remote workforce with the delivery bols because, you know, hey ah, and this is how I do it. In my business, I throw everything into a sauna or project managing, and there will be very frequently where we'll just kind of list a bunch of task and asana and say, Hey, um, please, please hit at it, go at it and then they complete the work and they upload the deliver Bols, whether it's a creative work or whether it's you know advertising, checking or whatever it might be to run your business. They go out and deliver time and time again. So I really like that.

spk_1:   9:35
Yeah. I mean, I have a neighbor that is working from home now, and he's constantly He has meetings. I have meetings from 1 to 4. Like meetings when you were a gun. Yeah, that's not a thing for us. Like everything. Our business is delivery, delivery, herbal focused, and that's what we do. Like. We get crap done and we move the business forward.

spk_0:   10:01
I like that. Get crapped on. It's all about deliverables. That's good. You mentioned you had 26 employees. I think that any business owners that's try to scale to that point has has gone come through a lot of revolutions and how they run their business. I'm curious if you can walk us through a tiny bit of that history and maybe even talk about your ord Chardin and do you have, you know, managers over the Philippines managing other members of their team and stuff like that.

spk_1:   10:29
So for me, I'm a small business owner and, um, most, I think most people, most small businesses would do really well to hunter one person, um, and not to set up an orc chart and not to try and build a build a team, at least not initially. I think I've seen so many times where people are like, Oh, I need a team and I'm gonna go higher these four people and then this isn't working out. Why not? Well, you know, it's really hard to hire four people at once. It doesn't matter what their cost is. We still have to manage four people. And so for me, I started with one person and that hiring that one person full time changed my life. Uh, it was it was amazing where the first time I hired this guy in 2005 the only thing his job was to do whatever I asked him to dio and whatever I was willing to teach him to do. And after a couple months, I realized there's kind of two of me now because I've taken things off of my plate and put them on his and taught him how to do it. So he's doing it the way that I want it done, and it's getting done without me. And now I can focus on more important things, like how to make sales. And I think most people would do really well to say I'm gonna find one person to do something that I know how to do so I can teach them to have a good experience at hiring someone, and then they're gonna do something for me, that I'm gonna get some time back in my life, and then I can move on and do something else.

spk_0:   12:03
I'm really fascinated by that one employee. Start with the one employee. I never would have thought of that. Personally. I guess I'm trapped in that team building mindset. But you're right. And looking back in my last couple of years of as I've built my own agency ah, more success happened when it was very focused on one employee to time, and I make that first hire that it really was the big game changer.

spk_1:   12:26
So So here's what What I what most people will tell you is to outsource the things you don't know how to do or you're not good at. And I think it's bad advice, interest for most people. Um, because unless unless the thing that you're good at his sales. Like Okay, if you're gonna sales, keep doing sales sweet. That's the That's the single most important thing in the business, right? But if you're gonna programming don't programming isn't what builds a business. If you're good at design, design isn't what builds a business. Or if you're good at social media marketing, that's not what builds a business. What builds a business making sales? So what you should And so there's like 4% of the population is really, really good at making sales, right on the the other 96% of us when Gary Vaynerchuk says outsource what you're good at our house was what you don't know and stick with what you're good at and gives an example of Oh, I'm really good at making sales and no elsewhere seals. And they'll steal Zagat. Well, yeah, that's a terrible example, because that's, like 4% of the population, right? For the rest of us, I graduate from college. Good, pure science. I was a programmer, so as a programmer, I could make, like, $150,000 a year, right? I'm capt. That's it. If I'm doing programming work where if I hire someone else to do something, I'm good at programming. Uh, I can pay them $800 a month in the Philippines to do that, and it turns out they're just as good as I was. And now I can focus on making sales. And so for me, what most people try and do is they want to build a team because they want they want to hire the things that they don't know how to do and they're not good at. And what that ends up doing for you is you're already working 50 hours a week, and now you hire a bunch of people to do things you don't know how to do, which requires way more management. And so now you're trying to manage people, adding extra time to your week. What you already don't have, as opposed to the other way, is hire one person to do something. You do know how to d'oh, and it's gonna take you five extra hours this week and five extra hours next week. And after that, you're gonna get five hours back. So you started with 50 hours. You're gonna work 55 for a couple weeks. Then you're gonna work 45 or 40. And now you just freed up some time. And that freeing up of time is so important, especially a small business where you can now focus on something that pushes the business forward. You can work on the business now instead of just in the business in those extra hours. And that's where I find that the major shift starts to happen for business owners is isn't getting some things off of your plate in transition, what you're doing to transitioning into the high dollar things. So I'll give you example, right? I've 26 people that work for me. I don't do anything in my business right now. Um, I don't touch the website. Don't I don't do any program in a programming in probably eight years. Um, I don't do any design work. I never touch WordPress. I never touch a setting. I don't I don't I don't even log in. Um, I don't log into Facebook. I don't make posts. I don't I don't do anything. The only thing I do is come up with decisions and direction, and I come up with processes and solve problems. And then I give instructions to other people for how they should do those things. No. In the beginning that started with. I have this one process that I'm doing. Um, we're we're writing these articles and marketing them online, and I hated it, but I knew how to do it. And so I took that process and I gave it to the first guy I hired in the Philippines, and it took some time to get it right with him. But after working with him through it and working with him through it, then he took over that process. And that was one thing that was off of my plate that I don't have to do it anymore. And that's where I suggest that most people start is get that one thing off of your plate, and then now, do you have this person doing one thing really well, Teach them something else. Teach them to do on a second thing. Get them doing that when they're when their time is filled full time. Great. Now you're ready to hire someone else because that person's time is already done. You don't have to spend time on them, and they've taken time off of your plate. And now you hire someone else and you get doing something else. And then when their time is full Now you're OK now that you have, you've experienced this and you've gotten good at it. Now you're ready. You great. You want to hire someone to build your website for you that you have no clue how to do find. Now is the time to do that, um, hiring somebody do to build you upset for you. The first thing is, is probably not. It's fine. It's doable. You could do it. It's just not the easier way to do this,

spk_0:   17:09
John. I let you monologue there because I was so fascinated by what you're saying. I think that's probably my favorite takeaway of our conversation today. And I'm really gonna kind of get off this podcast after and really think about that. It's It's a lot to take in and think about that kind of mentality shift. Um and so I really appreciate you going to some great detail there. Um, let's Ah, let's move the conversation forward. Thio Recruiting process. So how how should that process look like to make that first hire that you talked about.

spk_1:   17:44
So the Philippines has an interesting thing where they're so loyal that if you if they're to have a job, they're probably not gonna respond to you. So the wrong way to go about this is to go into online jobs, start looking at profiles, find the one and then contact them. Which I had an email yesterday from someone who said I found this person and I contacted him, and I'm just waiting for them to respond. Well, you know, like they might not respond.

spk_0:   18:11
They have their own life. They may not be

spk_1:   18:14
left. These aren't just because they have a profile. Online jobs, not Ph. Doesn't mean they're available. Work? They just created a profile. It's like indeed dot com where, you know, I have a You have a full time job. You have a profile. A profile on it, indeed. But that doesn't mean you're available to work, right? So the better way to go about it is to cast a really wide net. So go going online. Jobs. Uh, you're looking for someone with good English and with some design skills super common for someone running Amazon is is good English and design skills. Um, and you're going to just look certain, search for design skills and then filter with in English five star English, um, and and get an idea of, like what people are asking to make Look at their salaries, Look at their skills, look a look of their talents and how long they've been doing stuff and just get an idea of, like, what exists out there, right? And then go post a job, puts a job saying I am running this type of business and this is the person I'm looking for. Defined the role it's not. Here's your responsible to do this. And this And this And this And this And this And this and this and this Don't give him 50 tasks that they're responsible for. Just to find a role. You are a customer service person. You are a, um, general virtual assistant. I'm gonna ask you to do a whole bunch of tasks, or right, so you're gonna define a role and then post the job. And then as people start applying to your job, which, if you're if you're posting for an Amazon virtual assistant, you're gonna get tons of applications. Um, you're then you're gonna start interviewing people. And as you interview people, you're number one thing isn't which one of these people is the absolute best skilled person. That's that's great. But more importantly, is which one of these people do I work the best with? Like, who do I communicate well with? Who can I who do I really enjoy their style? So, for me, uh uh, this is really important. Um, the first person I hired in 2005 he still works for me today.

spk_0:   20:23
Wow, that's incredible.

spk_1:   20:26
Yeah, right. And and that's that's not uncommon. Uh, I mean, I have people that have worked for me for 15 years and for 14 years, and for 12 years and 10 10 and nine and seven and like, it's a really long term thing. And so find someone that works that fits your style. And some of that you get along with and someone that, like you're excited to hear from them is really important. Um, I have a couple of people that I hired, and I didn't I kind of didn't follow this advice. I was I was Maybe they were more a specialty person and I was Look, I wasn't. My options were limited. And every day, getting an e mail from them is kind of painful to me. Whereas others I'm, like, sweet. I have an email from him, right? Like I I love getting his emails because he stood in good at it was this other person. It's kind of painful, right? So as you're hiring an employee, you're not hiring a robot on the other side of the world. Who? Oh, they have this one talent. I'm gonna get the best one because they're gonna do this thing one time for me, and then I'm done with them

spk_0:   21:30
for creative relationship.

spk_1:   21:32
Yeah, you're Harding a relationship, and and that relationship is going to affect your business for a long time. And it's gonna be a really good positive effect on your business. So you're looking for, uh, someone who works well with you along with skills like skill. Don't don't don't get me wrong. Skills are important, but it's not. It's not always the most important. So as you interview people, you're gonna ask lots of questions. Um, you're gonna have lots of questions over lots of time, and you're going to email them back and forth as you do that. Then, as you've narrowed down your list front using email, then you will finally do a Skype interview and you'll Skype interview a couple people. You're not gonna try and narrow things down by doing a Skype interview from the beginning. That's the wrong way to go about it. That's because Filipinos were scared of the Skype.

spk_0:   22:25
They're nervous. In fact, you know, I interviewed one and and his sisters were in another room, and they, like, crawled behind him during the interview and he was so embarrassed. And I was like, Dude, don't worry about it. I know what it's like to work on home like I get it. I know this is your first corporate job, and I personally, and he's been an amazing higher, by the way. So like during those those interviews, it's not gonna be as as formal, potentially cause there's so nervous, but I think I think it's totally fine and and just just crack crack that egg of nervousness in the first couple questions. If you can't, this is my opinion. Ah, and make them feel at ease because then if you do that you're gonna see what they truly have to offer that you may not. You might have overlooked normally.

spk_1:   23:12
Yeah. Yeah. Um, so So you could do the Skype interview. Just do it later in the in the recruiting process. Don't do it in the beginning, and then you contest people like having to attest pay them for their tests, like, especially if you don't. If you don't end up hiring them, tell them, you know, like, here's the test we're gonna do You're gonna create an image for this product, or you're gonna write this description or whatever it is just to see who do I like working with the best and who does the best work. The combination of those two things. And if it takes longer than, like, 20 minutes, and you need to pay them for it and tell them up front that you'll pay them for it. And then you're at that point, you're you have a pretty good idea of who you're gonna hire, and you're gonna negotiate salary, and you'll ever you have a reasonable idea of what they want. Salary is negotiable in the Philippines. Um, so you can You can talk with them about, like, what are their needs? Or here's what you want. Well, here's what. Here's what. Here's what you're asking for in your profile where here's what I'm gonna pay. Here's what I'm paying. So when we started this, um, I wouldn't lowball someone, you know, like it's 1/3 world country. Um, they're still very, ah, respectable and respectful. And so, um, like, they still have a lot of they still have a lot of pride in themselves and their work and and their salary. Um, and then you're gonna say, like, Hey, when can you start like, Oh, I can start tomorrow? Oh, sweet. Okay, well, here's your first task, and then you're gonna work with them through the first task. You're gonna give them training, and you're gonna give them their assignment. And you're gonna say, Hey, when you when you come across something that's difficult or a problem where you're stuck or you don't know what to do, then come to me and I'm here to help you, and that's that's a really big deal with the Philippines, is they don't want to disappoint you. And if if they think that they're just on their own out on island, then they don't know what your expectations are. And if they do anything wrong, they're worried they're gonna disappoint you. And rather than disappoint you, they would rather disappear. And so, if you if you set the expectation that hey, I'm here to help you Hey, I'm here to work with you through this. Um, then they will. You're much more likely to have a long term, good working relationship with them rather than being like, Hey, here's your test. Go do it and leave me alone. Which is, unfortunately, the attitude some employers

spk_0:   25:41
and that could even happen to American employees. I'm sure there's some Listen to this where they've had the absence he bosses in their past and profit chuckling. Right now. Yep. I've been there. Um, okay, cool. So let's let's ah, end on this question. What can it be? A do for Amazon Sellers? I'm in a first give a couple of examples of how I've done it, and then I'd love for you to kind of chime in. So my favorite to hires that I've made, um and this is more of an agency higher. This is not necessarily a good hire for Ah ah ah, selling business. That's, you know, a small business on Amazon. But I have loved to specialize, and I hired a graphics designer, and they help us build out a plus constant. We have a creative director and house who's on the American side. We run all of our constant review through that before we provided to the client. But I have a graphic designer and because Coronas going on right now, they're actually stuck in their house. And she's, you know, I normally only showing it normally works 40 hours a week, but past two weeks she's worked 60 and we've just been crushing it with a bunch of design work. It's been fantastic. She's definitely been working really hard. Uh, so So designer is one category that I've hired for. Another one is advertising, and I have found that the human eye will always beat the automated systems of automated PPC management, especially because Amazons rolling out a new beta advertising program. Like every other week. It seems like yesterday we just did a ah podcast on on the new AA sponsor brand campaigns, where you can target by custom image, um, and if you don't know, I'm talking about what Put a link in the description. And basically, it's a new form of advertising which, you know, if you've got 1/3 party tool where you're paying automated adds to you right now, they you know they're not going to be exactly built to deal with all the beta changes and everything that's going on. So, um, I, in fact made in higher off of online jobs dot ph um, fairly recently to fill our advertising role, and they have been doing great. And when I posted the job on online jobs that P. H I I actually put right in the job description sent me a screenshot of your ads certification from Cellar Central. And this individual who I hired did that, and we hired them within 24 hour time, period. It was just fantastic. I also had him take a typing test because we write a lot of emails, and I just wanted to make sure that they could keep up on the communication, and that, for me, was part of my fit to know if I can work with them is can they send a lot of emails So those are the two favorite I've made. I also have 1/3 1 which does just purely number pulling in, reporting where they go in there and they look at the account and they send signals. Reports that pull, pull those reports that we send a client. So those are my favorite three. But there's many things you could hire a virtual assistant for or worker out of the Philippines toe help full time on an Amazon business. So those were mine favorites. What? What are your favorites, John?

spk_1:   28:33
So, uh, for an Amazon for Amazon business, Like like I mentioned couple times. Customer support is a big one.

spk_0:   28:39
That is good.

spk_1:   28:41
So I have Ah, I have an entrepreneurial son. He's 17 now. When he was 11 he started selling stuff on Amazon. Um, the only option I had was either to discourage him or, uh, get on board and help him. Well, as an 11 year old, you're probably pretty good at it. Well, he was good at, um, getting an idea, going and setting it up and not very good at following through. And at this point, he's more interested in girls than whatever else. Um but s O I have I have a V in the Philippines that works, works for me on online jobs that pay it. But he also handles a bunch of the Amazon stuff. So he he does all the paper click stuff, all the advertising he handles, all of the inventory management he does. He tries to get reviews for people he requests, reviews. Or I don't even know what he does any more. Frankly, because Because he just this way he's been working for me for so long. He's been with me for nine years, and he has done so much of it that he just doesn't know his own. Now, um, which is so great. So in general, though, um, some things that that that are very common for people here from the Philippines would be like programming designed social media, um, building an iPhone app s c o. Content writing, doing WordPress stuff. Just a general virtuous system. That's probably the most common thing. I'm virtual assistant. Um, we're gonna Shopify video audio editing, data entry people. Um, Web development

spk_0:   30:33
sounds like world is their oyster. That pretty much anything could be outsourced

spk_1:   30:37
Any anything that could be done online or on the phone. You can You can find someone in the Philippines to do it. And and we have customers finding people doing that, so

spk_0:   30:50
Well, great. So John is the founder of online jobs that ph John, I really appreciate you joining me today. Um, And for those that might have a question or wanna ask, who should they reach out to online jobs toe to get more information.

spk_1:   31:06
So on only jobs there is. Ah, we have an education page. Where will teach you where I teach everything I know about this. I try to, um Then if you want more like, if you want to ask me a question, you can ask me a question. If you go online job, stop Ph and use the contact us link. Um, obviously, it doesn't come to me, but all of our support people know that if you ask if you say this is for John, then they'll immediately send it to me, and I will personally respond to you. So I'm happy to respond and help. Uh, email is is really the way that I do that. Perfect.

spk_0:   31:43
Well, thanks again, John, and we will post some links to more information within the description. For those that are watching. This is the My Amazon guy podcast.