Cash Flow & PPP with Tyler Jefcoat CEO of Seller Accountant #31

spk_1:   0:00
we'll be talking current events on keeping your business afloat today during Cove in 19 and that means cash flow. So we're talking to a cash flow expert on the new PPP loans and how to keep the ship afloat during these uncertain times. My name is Stephen Pope, and I am the founder of my Amazon guy. This is the my Amazon guy podcast. So I'm now joined by Tyler Jeffcoat. He's thesis CEO of Cellar Accountants. And I would also say somewhat of a friend over the last few years. So Tyler, thanks for joining.

spk_0:   0:34
Hey, Stephen. Good to be here, buddy

spk_1:   0:36
and eso Tyler and I know each other. We met at the Prosper Show in Vegas a few years back, and then we went back to where we were both local in the Atlanta area, and we had to go to Vegas to meet each other. So

spk_0:   0:51
the wildest thing, In fact, I actually talked to another mutual contact today, Stephen, that lives in Maryland. And it was so wild that I guess your wife's family lives down the road from them and they were laughing because I've actually had dinner with you because we're both here in the Atlanta market. And yet I didn't meet you until I was out in Vegas. I don't know. It's just a tiny world.

spk_1:   1:09
That's the way the world works. Well, so today we're gonna be talking current events with Cove in 19. And, um you know, on Friday the PPP came out and for those that haven't been paying attention to the news What What is the PPP?

spk_0:   1:23
Yes, So maybe to loan programs that were recently released by the S P A. That we should care about right now. A seller's the 1st 1 was actually not the PPP. It was called the E I D l. And that was a $10,000 emergency grant available all small businesses to page underwriting directly through the S P. A. Very simple, although, to be honest, I don't know anyone's actually gotten that money. But I think even as of this morning, I haven't heard anyone getting that emergency loan. But you didn't have to apply with a bank and were to get that $10,000. You just apply. And so the bigger program, the one that we're more interested in, came out this past Friday. Steven is We're talking here and it is called the Paycheck Protection Program. The PPP cleverly named right. And basically this time you needed an F D I C insured bank you need is some kind of a lender that was an SP a approved lender to get through underwriting. And so there was just this mad feasting of ideas, right? Like all of last week was like Facebook live. Everyone's a guru and it seemed like every single day the rules of this s B A loan would change. And then on Friday, the applications went live, and most of the bank said, Whoa, you start filling them out, but we're not gonna take them until Monday morning. And then, actually, as of today, we're talking here on a Thursday. Ah, lot of these banks are already closing down. Access to those applications were literally talking Three full business days after Mitt live Banks were saying, OK, we've got enough. We've satisfied that the billions of dollars have been allocated. And so I mean, maybe just to sketch the basics of the program itself that essentially allows a small business to get roughly 2.5 times their average monthly payroll in the form of a what they're calling a forgivable loan. A loan that is issued, guaranteed, signed, sealed and delivered by the S P A. And as long as you follow the S P s guidelines of not firing people frankly, and keeping your employees, then after a period of eight weeks after you get cash, ah, portion or maybe all of the loan could be completely forgivable. And that's obviously great news. And I love this. I think I'm still there doing philosophically, Steve, because what this is is okay instead of us as taxpayers funding millions and millions of people who are frankly already filing for unemployment. Regardless, where this program comes out or not, why don't we fund the small businesses and keep people employed and frankly, let them do something of good instead of having to hunt for a new job in three months when the market.

spk_1:   3:44
So I'm a small business. You're a small business. We started Our business is about the same time, in fact, and and we've kind of wash each other's journeys on this and I I also have applied for a PPP loan, and I and I applied through cabbage dot com and then two banks. I went with a credit union and I went with the major retail bank and so far in the application process is I've gotten the farthest on cabbage. Um, and then the big bank, which was chasing my case, hasn't even requested any documentation. E

spk_0:   4:17
found that local banks have been the best luck for my customers. I think of now fit like cabbage that was able to apply specifically to have access to this program. And by the way, this just kind of makes me think, Stephen, this is incredibly easy money for the banks. They don't have to worry about losing any capital. The feds are guaranteeing every dime of these loans, and the feds are gonna pay them a 5% underwriting fee for facilitating the transaction. But, yeah, I wouldn't expect Wells be away or chase to be very responsive at this point because they got 100,000 transaction requests on Friday morning

spk_1:   4:50
and and I'm sure they're going after the multi $1,000,000 checks instead of the put paper pushing 100 K 50 K loans that the majority of the small businesses were gonna be seeking So it's challenging, to say the least so? So just to set you up a cz, an expert on this subject matter. Tyler, can you tell us a little about your seller accounting business?

spk_0:   5:14
Yeah, sure. So, Seller, can we only do two things? I'm an accountant, but we provide bookkeeping. Service is for sellers, and we provide CFO Service's of fractional CFO service is for sellers 100% e commerce. My team is here in Athens, Georgia, and we love what we do. And the landscape is changing so quickly that, you know, I had 10 bodies in my office And what do I do two weeks ago? So we just decided to Stevens, frankly, read as much of this frickin Billa's we could as it passed. The president signed it on Friday afternoon. We already had the Senate copy 48 hours before the president signed it, and we had read the majority of the bill by Monday morning, and so is the S P. A. Has been giving us additional guidance on the bill. We've been able to stay pretty current because this is a big deal. Half of our clients are having a great month because they're not running out of stock yet in F b A, and they're selling a lot of stuff. But half our customer Steven struggling, trying to manage cast flow through an unheard of shutdown of our economy.

spk_1:   6:08
I like to call it Black Swan events, and and that's because it's highly improbable, highly unpredicted and highly impactful event. I've also like to use the phrase It's a once in a 100 year event, and so, yeah, we're living. We're living in in textbook news, so to speak, for sure. Um, so So let's let's briefly talk about that remote aspect. So I had made the decision to take my business remote about six months ago, and I'm smiling and greeting over here because I needed an early good decision. And I'm getting the benefit of said luck, if you will. But a lot of businesses air just like you, Tyler, where they're finally just going remote for the first time. Do you? Ah, do you think you might save her boat question? I

spk_0:   6:53
mean, you know, I feel so thankful. The business I sold 2.5 years ago, not only do we have a central office that we had 120 healthcare employees remote in people's homes right now. And I can't imagine man and managing a business. Let me just say this. I'm grateful to not have to be a restaurant owner right now. I'm grateful to not own us nail salon or anything like that.

spk_1:   7:14
And God bless the trash man. That's just

spk_0:   7:16
I mean, the garbage man. My goodness, my health care workers. Right? And so yes, Steven, the fact that you and I have business is where we can pivot. It actually wasn't that big an adjustment fact. I already worked at home two days a week anyway.

spk_1:   7:28
And so when I see that white board behind you

spk_0:   7:30
getting getting clever here, right? Yeah. I mean, literally, You know, it's funny. The worst thing that happened to me Steven was toting my extra standing desk from my office home. You broke the darn window in the back of my car. Oh, now hit in the back of my SUV. I don't even know it for three days. But you don't drive anymore. Well, statehouse. Right. So I went outside my wife's like, uh damn, dude. He broke a window in the back your card. So anyway, that's my biggest moving expense. Stephen has been $271 to replace a window in the back of my pilot. That hurt hurt my feelings, but beyond that, this transition's been smooth. My team has responded amazingly well. Probably still have an office is an option, but we've always had the remote option.

spk_1:   8:10
All right, so let's let's turn our attention back to the P P. P S o. If I find a business and I haven't done anything on PPP yet, is it too late?

spk_0:   8:21
I don't think so. I think you better. You better find a banker who is still accepting applications. It's interesting, Stephen, that you went with three applications for anybody who's doing that. I don't That's not a terrible strategy. But whatever you do, don't sign all three of what I mean by that is, don't take money from more than one bank for the same program, which, of course, Steven, you would never do that. But that's the red flag the iris is looking for. From an audit standpoint. Would be if there are gonna be some scammers out there that will go, you know, take money from seven different banks and try to disappear. That's not gonna work at this point. I have heard of multiple banks not taking any more APS again, really three or four days in there already shutting it down. They've been totally inundated with requests, but two reasons that you shouldn't despair if you haven't taken. Actually, one is that there are still probably some of your local banks that will process APS. I would just call them better. Yet somebody that you know your credit union. I start with the small banks, don't do the big ones. And even if even if everyone I haven't heard anything, that makes me think everyone has shut down. But if everyone was shut down as we speak right now, Stephen, the Congress are They're debating whether to extend this small business credit by an additional $250 billion. As of about two hours ago, the Democrats ah kind of vetoed it for the moment. But they're negotiating back and forth. I can almost guarantee you that within I don't know, 10 business days. We're going to see an additional 250 billion fund to this program, and it's gonna mean that all these banks, once they figured out we're gonna open back up the opportunity.

spk_1:   9:48
So So one of the points that you know, I think the news is done. A good job of explaining is that this is almost pure free money. And so every business should absolutely checking this out. And if you don't have a financial expert on staff, you need either do one of two things. Either one, at least go fill out an application and check that box at bare minimum. But number two probably should maybe hire an expert like like

spk_0:   10:13
you guys. Yeah. I mean, well, thanks for the shoutout, man, but yeah, I would say one of the things you mentioned everything's really important is that sellers that are stronger that are having a pretty good may have a good end of the first quarter are feeling guilty about whether they should apply for the PPP or not. Don't be. Go phone. Feel guilty. We're at the very, very, very beginning of this crisis in terms of the economic impact. Uh, and you just here's here's my perspective for you. We have folks in our network that air so blading down with debt that have such a cash flows challenge that no amount of government subsidies gonna keep them from crashing over the next six months. I hate to say it's just it's the reality is what it is. This program is designed for those of us, frankly, like you're me, Steven, that running normal businesses, that under normal circumstances would be profitable. But because of the unbelievable disruption to the economy, we need help bridging the gaps. We keep our teammates and so get over. The feeling of this is a government handout. Get over the feeling of I don't deserve this. It's garbage. Apply for the loan. Because if you're selling through Amazon, you have been impacted by this period 100%. And then, um, what was your second question there?

spk_1:   11:27
Well, well, a couple things you maybe think of. And I was thinking ahead instead of thinking behind. So forgive me for not remembering, but but ah ah, one point I would make is you can still fire and higher like normal right now if you get the PPP loan with one caveat, this is one big takeaway for me personally. Is that as long you have to maintain the same number of head count. That doesn't mean you can't fire and rehire, right. So, like, right now, the talent pool availability to go find some good talent right now is now gigantically larger. And so you're gonna be able to find some talent right now. And I don't think anybody's talking about it like this, and that's why I'm bringing it up. I think you should be hiring right now if at all possible. If you if your payroll allows it because you're gonna be able to pick up some talented individuals who are, quite frankly, desperate. So work. Ah, and you're gonna be doing them a favor. But they're gonna do you a favor because they're under, uh, underappreciated because they don't have employment at the moment. So So it's gonna be a win win in some of those situations, But at the same time, you know, I know. I'm sure a lot of people are thinking, you know, Hey, I've got this one guy and he's made a mistake, and I you know, I want to cut him, But if I apply for this, I can't do it. No, actually, you can just make sure you re hire somebody. So that was one of the things I was thinking about to call out A

spk_0:   12:41
great point really means, Steven, that you need to run your business like a business owner, right? You need to be a CEO. You need to hold your team accountable for performance. You need to hold your products. I know. Stocking out, Stephanie, you need to hold your products accountable for profitability. And when it comes to people, I love that idea. If you are strong right now, if you're in the blessed position to have a bit of cash flow Um, why are you not looking for opportunities to buy competitors? Why are you not looking for opportunities to hire high level employees that are good at stuff that you're not good at? You've been putting off an influencer marketing strategy because you don't know how to do it. You've been putting off a Shopify strategy because you don't have to do it, find some talent out there when it gets a little bit more available and take advantage. I mean, that's I mean, you should

spk_1:   13:29
so So I totally agree and and we just entered into quarter to and And I was thinking, uh, you know where you mentioned you were just the beginning stages of this crisis. So everybody's just trying t o fly this airplane as they build it, so to speak. But what should people be doing right now? What's your business owners be doing right now that you think maybe they're not paying attention to yet?

spk_0:   13:55
I had a meeting with I lead a mastermind for seven and eight figure Amazon sellers via Zoom. We met yesterday, and all of us and I would include myself in this were behind our normal commitments for having a clear quarterly plan. And there's two. There's really two reasons for this. One is there's never been a time in my career, ever. Steven, we're seeing what June is gonna look like is, like, more vague. I have no idea. Like I'm a CFO for $100 million a year worth of sales on e commerce sites, including Amazon. And I couldn't give with integrity a sales projection for almost any of my clients. We don't know. We don't know when FDA is gonna open back up. We don't understand how different listings gonna interact. I don't understand how the Wuhan opening is gonna, in fact, the supply chain that's going on literally today in China. And so it's hard to project. And so what CEOs, air doing and maybe some of our listeners are doing is they're sitting and waiting there, being patient instead of being persistent. And so I think my encouragement to my audience and Stephen, I would say two years also is Dogon. ITT's never been harder to know what the future's going to dio, but it's also never been more important to be proactive in approaching your goals. And so the way I do that, as as I literally take 1/2 day by myself every quarter I've done it. Maybe for 10 years now and before I own my first business and I take a journal, I shut down electronics and I say, What do I want to be true in my life 90 days from now in my business? And then I asked the more important second question, which is what are the habits that need to be true in my life, where the activity is the actions that I need to commit to taking in order to ensure as much as I can possibly control insure that I hit my goals for the quarter and I need to go public with those goals so that people So the people around me that love me will hold me accountable for right. And so if you're a CEO of a business right now and you're trying to figure out what do I do? First we need to be developing products. That's a no brainer. I'm sure, Stephen, you talk with that all time. But beyond that, don't forget that there is going to be a back into this and that there are gonna be competitors of yours who have been sitting on their rears that are not gonna be ready. And you need to be ready. And so I think that's my advice. So

spk_1:   15:57
that's a good point. A lot to dissect their specifically in the developed products that sort of that first. So no, um, with cash flow tight, a lot of businesses, they're just calling expenses right now. And and for some, that's literally all they can handle at the moment. Um, for for other businesses that are looking for opportunities, though, Ah, if you don't go to market with your product by October, you're gonna miss the 24 rush, right? And so right now is the perfect time to kick off that order in China. And get that that that goods over? Because if you get the goods over here by June or July, that's some some breathing room to make sure you hit that big launch and queue for. So that's definitely one thing I I'm thinking about right now is like, what could I be launching right now? And who, what? Where People avoiding and not launching because of the cash flow issues? Um, so I like the other point you made about focus. Um, and you talk about habits and and how you're thinking and thinking about how to take control and be accountable. The return of report aspect absolutely couldn't agree more with, um so I've also seen before Corona hit Kobe. 19 hit. I was watching YouTube clips like Sam ovens and a bunch of others, and and they were just talking nonstop about this focus and go deep on one thing instead of going abroad and and and scatter shot in your shotgunning. Do you? I probably think that's probably more important now than ever. What are your thoughts?

spk_0:   17:29
Yeah, I think Yes. I couldn't agree more. I think doing doing things with excellence has never been more important now, like getting getting great at something using this moment. I mean, I don't know about you, Steven, but as an entrepreneur, like, I kind of bitching moaning constantly about not having time to do the things I wish I could do right as entrepreneur like now is when I need to be doing them like, how do I need to sharpen the ax to develop a new skill set to to really tighten down? I could be something as simple is really tightened down my listings, doing additional homework. Stuff that takes time are something really small. This is like I have a customer right now who is having to sell fulfill some of his products, right? And he's writing a simple hand written note on some of the packages, like like do things that you can do because you have time that sets you apart from your customers. Maybe one question I would ask. I wonder, Stephen, what's your thoughts on this? But you know this. What are the buyer needs one of the buyer expectations where the buyer ex experiences that are changing now maybe, maybe forever, because of code at 19.

spk_1:   18:31
That's a great question. And I have a lot to say on this one. So So I think that because schools are not returning this year, school years is out, right? And we've got home daycare going on. We've got businesses that said, Hey, you couldn't be remote before that have now been forced to do it. And now everybody like the workforce Workforce is never gonna return to what it waas. It is going to be, um, very much more remote gig, economy and that. So, you know, basically, in the past when you were trying to run a career, So this is advice for people who you know aren't necessarily running their own business, But maybe they're part of the work force, right? So if you're a marketing manager out there, that kind of angle um, I used to have three choices. You could pick location, salary or titled, and you had to pick two of those three. And now location is just flat out Almost granted. You could work. We could work remotely. You're gonna be able to see talent go across state lines like never before, right? So that's from a talent pool standpoint. Um, my second observation would be that from a buyer standpoint, we're going to see people shop differently than they ever have before. And we're already seeing this because people who hadn't got on the I'm gonna buy stuff from from Amazon aspect. And I'm gonna go to the grave before I ever do it. Were forced to do it right. Your retail store is shut down and and so buyer behaviors or changed. And when that happens, that means there's Maura available growth. And so we saw Amazon higher 100,000 workers. Walmart hired like 80,000 just to handle the demand was way, way up. Um, you know, I was talking to ah, some sort of hedge fund business investor the other day, and he was trying to calculate what he thought Amazons. True growth was during this time period, and I was saying things like two and three acts in it. And he challenged me on that. And, you know, we we kind of ran through the numbers. Amazons Probably right around 40% up, right now, probably realistically, but still enough to break their back in their supply chain and issues. Ah, so last thought I have is is so right now, Amazon is recession proof. And if we go into a big depression, I think we will. Um it's gonna be the first sector that recovers, even if it does go down. And you'd mentioned that a lot of businesses were either way up right now are way down. And there's not a lot of people in between. But nonetheless, I think I have a very positive outlook for Amazon. Specifically, any commerce in general, Um, that we'll see demand continue to be very, very good. And

spk_0:   21:02
you mentioned Wal Mart, by the way, Don't sleep on Wal Mart. I think they are investing. This is a huge opportunity for Wal Mart to try toe inch its way up the learning curve of direct to consumer. Um, open up a marketplace similar to FDA to try to compete recently. They're not doing it well yet. They haven't figured it out yet.

spk_1:   21:19
I don't know why, because they bought jet and they're like, Oh, Canada, great jet their systems to new. Our system's too old I don't know what it was, but, man, they fumbled. That went bad.

spk_0:   21:28
Well, you know, instead of being a decade behind which they are right now, they'll end up being, like, five years behind. So it's still gonna be a win for Wal Mart. Okay, well, that was on.

spk_1:   21:36
It will. Definitely. I think I think we will see Amazon get knocked up at some point. This is going to show Amazons weaknesses and vulnerabilities in areas that they've never had to experience before. So the last thing I think change is on the the landscape here is that Ah, lot of brick and mortar retailers now have their inventory still, but they don't have a way to access selling it. And they haven't thought of Amazon before. And now guess what? My phone's ringing off the hook right now with businesses that want to sell an Amazon for the first time. And that's that. You know, that one caught me by guard. It makes sense in retrospect, but ah, I was still caught off guard that that they were gonna have to find some avenue. In addition to that, though, we've done a good job with with our Amazon clients in helping them launch on Wal Mart on eBay and other opportunities. And we build shop of five websites to get those going. Um, if amazon, you know, shuts you down or suspend you are doesn't allow shipments inbound. That cuts down on your revenue stream. You gotta have other options right now. And so I think you're very much onto the diversification idea. Very, very good subject. Um, all right, so people have a little extra time on their hands. They're not commuting there, listening to more podcasts like the my Amazon guy podcast. Um, I understand you've launched some new coursework recently that might help you be a better bookkeeper. A better CFO. Can you talk to me about that?

spk_0:   22:54
S o Our vision to launch courses as a accounting shop has been two or three years now, and we we execute him. Thankful we did this. It was kind of like you going remote. Stephen, it was accidental. Great timing. But we we recorded these courses. Basically, the 1st 1 is a bookkeeping. How do you do the Amazon accounting correctly where you can see your fees and your revenues and your cost to get So how do you do the inventory monster? All that kind of stuff start to finish. And the second course is as a CFO. There's some things that I do. I don't have time to do for all the sellers out there that can help you understand your profitability, to make more money. So there's two courses and you know what? We are initial vision, Stephen. Because there's so many sellers out there, that is. Our phone is also off the hook that we could help. We thought, Well, geez, well, let them do it themselves for 97 $407 for the bookkeeping accounting course and 97 for the C. F. O course. And but then the market changed. Everything has has really radically changed in the last literally two or three weeks. It's amazing how quickly it's changing, and we've decided to just throw that pricing strategy out. Steven, that was actually, um, you know, I'm glad you have me here today, but for your listeners, we're gonna offer each of those two courses for $9. If you if you want to take this time or Dean these moments by learning how to actually do your own accounting. Well, forget about hiring an accounting agency. Do that later. Once you're once you're back on track, if you want to learn how to do your own CFO and Alice is better, and you've got a little time to burn right now, you know, I wanna offer both of these courses each for $99.

spk_1:   24:23
And so to take advantage of this promotion, where do you go?

spk_0:   24:28
Yeah, so we've actually, it's funny. It's so new. We haven't even launched the landing page. But there's actually a blogger on our web sites of cellar accountant dot com. You can actually get to it that way, Steven. I'll send you a link so you can put it,

spk_1:   24:38
put it in the notes for the show, and then to get access to the promotion. Just put in, put in a promo code, then it sounds like

spk_0:   24:45
a problem. Just my Amazon. Yeah, my heart.

spk_1:   24:48
And I love it. Perfect. So, yeah, again, that cellar accountant dot com and just head over to the blah glink. We'll put that link again inside of the podcast description, and that'll save a pretty penny. Ah, normally gonna be 1000 or $500 for those two courses. Now, for 99 bucks, use promo code. My Amazon guys, that's great. Well, cool here. We're getting close to wrapping up. Tyler, What other advice would you say? Uh, my listeners who are focused on Amazon right now, what else should they be paying attention to get better at your skills habits? We talked about that. What

spk_0:   25:19
else? Only two more things I had on my mind. Here is your talking there, Steven? No one is challenge your beliefs right now while things are slow. What are the things I'm assuming about how my business quote unquote has to be done. That might not be true in the future. What do I need to change about my mindset? I don't We tell my desk with remote working. Obviously, that was a false assumption by companies that I can't possibly get work done. If I'm remote. It's garbage. Of course you can. What are the things about the way I'm interacting with my customers and my suppliers that I could potentially change and innovate? That's one. And then the second thing is what is one small, tangible way that I can humanize the experience of interacting with my products. So I believe wholeheartedly like you do. I'm so I'm so optimistic, Stephen, that e commerce is gonna rebound quickly. It's exactly where you want to be, is a entrepreneur right now. But I also hold hardly believe what Daniel Pink said over a decade ago in his book, A whole new mind that people don't buy products just because they check off the boxes. I don't just need this pin too, right. I want it to mean something to me. And so whether it's having better videos or putting a personal touch in your product boxes, doing something that creates a human connection for your key relationships while we're feeling so isolated, you're gonna find that there is outsized r A y on two seconds on just a quick story, like I've been tryingto start recording on my iPhone. 32nd. Thank you. Videos just personalized. You know, Steve, you might get one for me tomorrow, right? Hey, thanks for having me on your podcast. I love you, dude. Killer beard and I'm gonna send Stephen this text message. It took me less time than writing an email. He's seven times as likely to open and consume that video in terms of building our relationship, which already love the guy. But it's gonna help. So don't forget that for the important relationships in your life,

spk_1:   27:02
can't say at my beard's getting gets many compliments that actually have no idea. Um, it's probably pure laziness on my part to grow it, but ah, yeah, I I do that my my wife likes the, uh, the full beard over the goatee. And so the compromise. Okay, we'll do the full beard. Well, I'm bold. Bold. So there's I plan on Cuba on it myself. And go on cue ball. Go t and I and I, And my hair is thinning out on top here. It's getting super thin. And as I've talked to you Ah ah, hair experts such as yourself, I'm told that goes slowly so I still might have a couple years left. We'll see what happens when you go. All right. Well, Tyler, thank you for joining me on my my Amazon guy. Podcast it. Did you get to the second point? Did you get both of those in? That

spk_0:   27:48
was it. You know, what were your false assumptions and how Can you make your experience human

spk_1:   27:52
for your clients? Yeah. All right. Perfect. So again, one last plug for Tyler Jeffcoat. Hey, is the CEO of cellar Accountants. He's got courses on how to be a better CFO and bookkeeping on his website will have links for that in the podcast notes and promo code for 19. My Amazon guys, the promo code for $99 for those courses versus the retail price of 1500 bucks. So really good deal for our listeners today. And Ah, again, Tyler. Thanks for joining. You got a boat? Take care. All right. Thanks, everybody, for listening to the Amazon guy broadcast, please feel free to subscribe to our podcast until somebody else about its insurance across social media world out there that there are opportunities to learn and get better during times like this. So this is the lions